tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5417138872461097808.post4761234914672957455..comments2023-08-13T06:00:11.959-07:00Comments on Tower22: Global Illumination in T22Rickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04196340535742326978noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5417138872461097808.post-72712722792777857772014-06-16T10:59:40.940-07:002014-06-16T10:59:40.940-07:00The months/years effort being spend on realtime G....The months/years effort being spend on realtime G.I. is not really the issue, I had fun trying it (and a bit of frustration seeing the results every time), and eventually you could dedicate a programmer to it.<br /><br />But indeed, it still adds little value. In fact, it will cost you performance, quality, and also a degree of control the artist should have. The bad thing about static lighting is, well, its static. The good thing is that static lighting at least can be tuned exactly to your taste. Dynamic G.I. on the other hand can be hard to predict, not to mention the good dose of artifacts it usually brings.<br /><br />And then when you ask yourself if a (correct) realtime solution is really needed... Indoor area's don't change a lot unless you want fully destructable environments, and for outdoor day/night cycles you can still make semi-realtime solutions to appxorimate indirect light from the sky / sun / moon. In the case of Tower22, it would be nice if a flashlight adds some indirect light as well, but other than that its not absolutely necessary to have it.<br /><br /><br /><br />T22 uses screen-space reflections, SSAO, and a blurry realtime updated cubeMap for reflections. It shades the corners and adds reflections and a gloss to more diffuse surfaces, although its not a valid substitute for G.I. on itself.<br /><br />What I did (and I believe most other games nowadays do something similiar) a couple months ago, is making a "probe-grid". 1 to 4 probes are placed per cubic meter, or less in wider rooms. Each probe pre-calculates the incoming light from 6 directions, and stores it in some volume textures. Plus it adds a dynamic amount of skylight, depending on how much% skylight it can see, and what the current skycolor is. Not much realtime, but at least its simple and fast. And a nice extra benefit is that all your objects or particles can sample indirect light from those volume textures as well.<br /><br />The system is setup to get more realtime (if needed, and it it looks good enough) by storing relations between probes. A probe knows roughly which surfaces are reflecting diffuse light to it, and thus it knows from which probes to sample. If you inject direct light into the probes first, then you can scatter it around quite easily for multiple bounces. But if it will really look nice... you can only store a limited amount of relations per probe, before killing the memory of course...<br />Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196340535742326978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5417138872461097808.post-9421105490150866532014-06-16T02:13:35.756-07:002014-06-16T02:13:35.756-07:00I'm thinking, indirect lighting is one of thes...I'm thinking, indirect lighting is one of these things that nowadays give you very little added value compared to the many months of effort you need to expend on it (to fully understand every paper on the topic and compare techniques + trade-offs etc etc) -- look, nowadays you can do in real-time:<br /><br />physically-based HDR lighting with easy to implement dynamic environment diffuse+specular (like IBL but sample into your dynamically rendered skybox/cubemap mip-chain based on glossiness) which replace the old-school ambient term and fresnel reflection. Lots of legwork needed to make sure the correct mip is used, not too much and not too little is rendered into the cubemap etc. but no prob for realtime. Add normal screen-space techniques like AO and screen-space reflections for local (as opposed to the cubemap's global) reflections and you're pretty much set for indirect lighting, I propose.<br /><br />Because this gives you *some* plausible light bounce on every surface. Any bounce light is better than none and absolutely sufficient for 99% of gamers. Only graphics PhDs can really tell whether proper indirect radiosity etc. was calculated to arrive at the correct mix of bounce light and glossy reflection, as opposed to oldschool cubemap lookups for diffuse-ambient and specular-reflective contributions.<br /><br />Not sure what I'm missing... don't think GTA5 used any more specific GI approach at least on the last-gen consoles. Once you have diffuse-ambient + specular-reflective from cubemap, screenspace reflections and AO --- you have achieved a very pretty-looking "the visually important 97% of what GI is shooting for".. I think :DPShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03992527788905662829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5417138872461097808.post-53080106125049757512013-11-21T12:38:32.653-08:002013-11-21T12:38:32.653-08:00Looking around on the Killzone website now, thanks...Looking around on the Killzone website now, thanks for all those links! I saw the Farcry 3 paper earlier, and something similar is in the make for T22 as well. But with a much more dense probe-grid. T22 uses narrow indoor environments whereas Farcry is a very open game of course.<br /><br />It's probably best to stick with a certain technique rather than changing all the time indeed. Then again I didn't found any GI solution I'm really happy with so far (T22 used some sort of realtime GI right from the beginning), so I'm still looking. And of course, time is remorseless. Something that looks good now, might be outdated 2 years later.<br /><br />But I agree, more effort should be put into making a fun game rather than chasing the best graphics. It's a goal I won't reach as a solo-programmer anyway, and on top it makes the 3D-content production much harder. It's (too) difficult already to find people that have talent AND time for this project. I hate to take a step back, but if we want to reach something playable you can download, we might have to drop some bits. Though that comes at a price as well; something that looks good will attract audience (and artists) more easily as well. <br /><br />On top, T22 is mainly about getting sucked into the environment. If the graphics lack or are inconsistent, it's also harder to drag the player into a certain horrible mood. Amnesia proved that you don't need superb graphics to create a scary game, but still... I like nice pictures :) All in all, it's hard to find the good balance.<br /><br />Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196340535742326978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5417138872461097808.post-34686772364827121112013-11-20T16:59:31.890-08:002013-11-20T16:59:31.890-08:00I'm working too on an engine but it's year...I'm working too on an engine but it's years i read about this new paper or that games or demo and at the end i just made lots of "tests" more than building something and move on ;) Now that i've full time to dedicate on my project i decided to keep things simple and advance with as rigid as possible timeframes. <br />My logic is to put everything in perpective of time and what i need to create. For example i'm trying to investigate better about Physically Based Lighting because it seems to make lighting/shading more "uniform" along different scenes so that you don't need to hack settings to have the results you want (ex. a metal in a scene is ok, the same one is too dark in another). Yeah, artists need to work a little bit different (ex. using a reference color table for knowing who to reproduce correctly metals and other types of surfaces) but it could speed up the processing. <br /><br />There's a game called Dark Souls, made for consoles and then ported to PC, that have just lightmaps and very minimal use to dynamic lighting (i fear even dynamic shadows are next to null :P). But the game had so much success because the gameplay is very nice and the enviroments ispired. People are easily "distracted" if good games ;)<br />It's funny that next year a sequel will be released and, from the videos, they have implemented realtime shadows and rooms that can change lighting and people are very so excited that they comment like if it was realtime global illumination :) <br /><br />The paper about KillZone is on the Guerrilla Games website and you can find a video on YouTube too where someone discusses it.<br /><br />You can see also the paper about FarCry 3, they use different types of probes for outdoor lighting and "local" lighting. Probably a little complicated but interesting.<br /><br />There's the "WebGL Deferred Irradiance Volumes" demo that updates lighting for a sponza scene when the sun is changed. Probably the easier example you can find around.<br /><br />Then i'd look also at some documentation from the game Remember me where they talk about shading, reflections, wet surfaces and other things<br /><br />http://www.fxguide.com/featured/game-environments-parta-remember-me-rendering/<br />http://www.fxguide.com/featured/game-environments-partb/<br />http://www.fxguide.com/featured/game-environments-partc/<br /><br />Just yesterday i played Crysis 3 and in the first level they have a very nice rain scene, i was impressed! Even in your game some water dripping on some wall or rain drops falling from some holes in the ceiling could be cool :)Giannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5417138872461097808.post-42258709429676709132013-11-19T23:54:03.959-08:002013-11-19T23:54:03.959-08:00You're very right about "People not notic...You're very right about "People not noticing much light bouncing". And that makes it a bit silly to spend so much energy and offer so many CPU/GPU resources on it. Having realtime GI really has become a technical feature to brag about your engine.<br /><br />In fact, a few weeks ago I started with a half-baked solution, having "GI probes" scattered all over the world containing pre-calculated incoming light. It's so much easier and faster in the end, athough I still plan to add some dynamic features to these probes so they at least react on light changes. Maybe that Killzone paper you mentioned has some nice hints!Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196340535742326978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5417138872461097808.post-34329954843229935382013-11-19T14:39:53.809-08:002013-11-19T14:39:53.809-08:00The voxel approach seems like a realtime version o...The voxel approach seems like a realtime version of the radiosity calculation :) Even in this last one you simplify the surfaces in pieces of blocks and then computer radiance of each of them with rays going around. It was not fast to have small blocks computed, now with more power it's possible to process more high quality results. Probably it'll take some years before voxels are mainstream in AAA games, or maybe something new will come out ;) Even new consoles have games really slow (~ fps), i don't think voxels will be the solution as they are now ;)<br />I think nowadays modern game engines uses irradiance probes, baking static or even semi-dynamic/realtime indirect illumination. I'd personally use them too, probes with static lighting, screen-space raytraced glossy reflections like in KillZone for PS4 (see their paper) for the enviroment, precomputed or semi-dynamic cubemaps for dynamic objects reflections, reflective shadow maps for simulating light bouncing for certain cases (ex. the player light), then deferred rendering for covering any other case with any number of lights you want :)<br />I don't think people notice much light bouncing, they are more attracted by volumetric lights, shadowed particles, good quality of textures, good shadows and of course gameplay :)Giannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5417138872461097808.post-20987596915802587902013-11-18T07:21:48.313-08:002013-11-18T07:21:48.313-08:00Well, I listened to the comments... Not quite sure...Well, I listened to the comments... Not quite sure how and when to start a KS campaign, but the next busstop will be a playable demo. First got to finish this movie though. Hopefully this movie will help gaining publicity & manpower.<br /><br />After that I'll announce the plans. As you said, if we open for donations, we should be honest and transparent about the goals and expectations. The floorplans and ideas have been made for this demo, though it won't be exactly "few rooms". Unlike a boxing game where you can make a single boxing ring with 2 puppets, the T22 game style simply requires a somewhat bigger environment.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196340535742326978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5417138872461097808.post-7184103267537851252013-11-18T06:31:42.735-08:002013-11-18T06:31:42.735-08:00I think that is a good idea to expose content to s...I think that is a good idea to expose content to some magazines, you could also tell about your Kickstarter capaign on Gamedev and pascalgamedevelopement.com.<br /><br />Few rooms, one smart puzzle and you will have a lot of supporters trust me. <br />People are willing to pay for much less. Most of Kickstarter campaigns even do not offer any playable demos, just preseting some screens and telling "how awesome the game will be when you fund it" ;)<br /><br />Look forward to see this demo movie:)<br />Soul Intruderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16873694208138872553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5417138872461097808.post-30796018540201096332013-11-12T11:14:00.653-08:002013-11-12T11:14:00.653-08:00Well, you're right about pretty much everythin...Well, you're right about pretty much everything there. I'll just ask around on Gamedev or something and see what the experiences from others are.<br /><br />As for smaller, more realistic targets, we're not trying to make the whole game. It would be the ultimate goal, but in this state, it's simply not possible. I'm hoping to create a small playable part of the game, then sell it for a small price, or spread it as freeware. If people like it, it should be easier to have a second run with a bigger team, bigger goals, and eventually a bigger budget.<br /><br />But looking at how long it takes to even finish a bunch of rooms, I'm wondering how big that portion should exactly be. How much is needed to make people curious for more? An action game can be fun directly, even if it's just a single stage. If the gameplay is addictive, it can quickly prove itself. A horror game like T22 on the other hand evolves very, very slowly. A random fragment of the game doesn't tell much. <br /><br />Of course I can think of a particular scene, but it may give ~15 minutes of gameplay at most. Well probably that's the only entry point we really got. But I'm not so sure if people are willing to pay & wait for 15 minutes of "game".<br /><br /><br />A new demo movie will be released soon (said that 4 months ago already, I know, but really, something will come). I want to send that movie to a Dutch games magazine to get some more exposure, and thus hopefully get more team members. But that might also be the right time to query the audience for a Kickstarter budget and announce a simpler, smaller goal.<br /><br />Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196340535742326978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5417138872461097808.post-15549298317504439062013-11-12T03:06:04.241-08:002013-11-12T03:06:04.241-08:00Rick, regarding your issues:
1. You are a smart g...Rick, regarding your issues:<br /><br />1. You are a smart guy, half an hour on google should give you answers regarding legality of such business. Or talking to the fellow guys from other kickstarter projects in Netherlands.<br /><br />2. 50k $ is not much but...everything is dependant on the size of the project. I think careful planning will allow you to estimate cost of your game. It is simmilar to estimating the time needed for implmeneting a given feature. Of course you should add to this +30% as a rule of thumb, because always something can go wrong. Maybe you should start with a smaller game. You know, instead of full building make a four first floors. Plan the gameplay for 8 hours and sell the game for 7$. Smaller game = smaller costs, easier to estimate and easier to release. <br /><br />The way I see it you have two choices - build your game forever or release something smaller but it will give you a starting platform for making something bigger:)<br /><br />3. I think that honesty might be the key for Kickstarer. A lot of guys are willing to take the risk if you tell them the truth and show them what you already have.Soul Intruderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16873694208138872553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5417138872461097808.post-13897186531831218672013-11-09T12:44:20.233-08:002013-11-09T12:44:20.233-08:00I thought about Kickstarter. You're not the on...I thought about Kickstarter. You're not the only one who said that, and that's a compliment for this project really. But I'm concerned about 3 things mainly:<br /><br />- Not sure if it's (legally) possible in the Netherlands to just get a bag of money. Got to pay tax, whatever. Thing is, I have zero experience when it comes to setting up a business. Apart from the legal issue, you also have to manage the dollars in a proper way when it comes to paying helpers, buying software, or whatever the money is spend on. I'm sure there are people who can manage that, but... it needs to be someone I can fully trust.<br /><br />- Say we collect 50k $. Sounds like a lot, but it really isn't. At least not if you want to give a somewhat reasonable per-hour salary to your helpers. One system could be to pay-per-asset. You make a monster for me, you get 5$. Can't be too much, otherwise the pockets will be empty soon as well. Just a little bit to stimulate. I like this idea, but it's still a lot work to regulate all of this properly, and we have to avoid people making shit and expect some dollars for it. Money can cause conflicts.<br /><br />- I'm a very honest guy (really). And I would hate to receive money from fans, and give nothing in return. Of course I will try to pay you back with a game-release (or playable mini game at least), but I simply can't give any guarantees. I would feel bad about getting money now really. <br /><br /><br /><br />I know honesty and being too careful won't get you far. Successful men are those who took risks. So I'm not saying Kickstarter is out of the question. But I really want a more solid foundation (thus having a team I know who can do the job) before involving money. Or come with a complete different target that is much smaller / more realistic than making Tower22. But I'm not so sure if I could give love to such a target hehe<br />Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196340535742326978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5417138872461097808.post-38248371761335682002013-11-09T08:14:59.880-08:002013-11-09T08:14:59.880-08:00Rick, I think that for you there is no turning bac...Rick, I think that for you there is no turning back now.;) Have you thought about Kickstarter campaign?:) I am sure that many folks would back you up with some cash. You have already a lot to show!Soul Intruderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16873694208138872553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5417138872461097808.post-80975566382195248852013-11-08T04:23:15.744-08:002013-11-08T04:23:15.744-08:00Groundwork indeed is huge. And it never seems to b...Groundwork indeed is huge. And it never seems to be finished either, although some parts like a camera system or audio are less likely to change once they got implemented "right". But then from a software-architecture perspective, even the definition of "right" changes over time as you gain experience.<br /><br />The T22 engine (still in Delphi7) has most base elements (resource management, graphics, physics, audio, walking with a player, script stuff, AI, ... ) yet none of those components is 100% finished. So in the end I code far less on actual game-stuff than I would like to. <br /><br />That & the less user-friendly tools may keep rapid the production of game environments a bit down. So, I sometimes wonder if this is really the good way to do it. But as you mention, when picking another engine I probably have to drop a lot of small but subtle features that make this game different. And from a pure egoistic programming perspective, it would be less fun and less of an achievement for me personally :)Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196340535742326978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5417138872461097808.post-92075937181983420042013-11-07T05:18:12.067-08:002013-11-07T05:18:12.067-08:00Ah Żywiec, nice ;-)
Yeah, I know that those edito...Ah Żywiec, nice ;-)<br /><br />Yeah, I know that those editors are tedious to make them user friendly. But making an engine is also a hard work. You know, I am working my ass off as a software developer on daily basis but not in a 3D world. I"ve made few 2D games in DirectX for fun. I've started to code my game in OpenGL but it takes a lot of time. Building your own fonts, or camera movement. Basic stuff and it took me like 2 day to figure out how to properly move my camera object.<br /><br />In this tempo I will probably never start to code the content of my game. Advantage of an engine is that it frees you from groundwork but for the other hand you are loosing flexibility and probably often you will hit a wall because some things will not be achievable in the engine.<br /><br />I thought I will do it in FreePascal and then compile on mulitplatforms but picking such language<br />makes it even harder because community is a much smaller and engines are pretty basic<br />(again because the community is much smaller).<br /><br />So, to answer your question: I would rather to have fun and earn some money if it is possible:)<br /><br />Are you still making your game in Delphi?Soul Intruderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16873694208138872553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5417138872461097808.post-30663964033237845712013-11-07T03:32:01.559-08:002013-11-07T03:32:01.559-08:00When i go to Poland its usually in the South, very...When i go to Poland its usually in the South, very close to the Zywiec brewery :). A few of our harvesting (Ploeger) machines are running in the Gdansk area though so who knows<br /><br />Scene tools... I‘m using Lightwave to create 3D stuff, but most of the artists I know use a mixture of Maya, 3DMax and Blender. Let the artist decide which tool he wants to use, and make importers/exporters for that. A simple and often used format for example would be OBJ.<br /><br />Scenes and Objects are loaded into a Map/Object/Particle editor I made myself, where we add engine-specific things. place lights, generate GI data, put furniture, assign materials et cetera. Making these editors is hard work though, especially making them a bit user-friendly so another can use it too. That‘s why a lot of people pick a game engine such as UDK instead, which comesautomatically with nice tools, documents and *working* software. Well, that‘s a choice to make. Is your goal to program and learn/play a lot, or do you care more about the end result, thus a game?<br />Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196340535742326978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5417138872461097808.post-52403798956602741612013-11-06T23:07:53.112-08:002013-11-06T23:07:53.112-08:00Hello Rick, I had few months of break in reading o...Hello Rick, I had few months of break in reading of your blog but I am back again;) And I am really glad to see that you are still working on your game. That is awesome. Your posts are very informative and I think that your blog deserves more recognition than it has :)<br /><br />What tools do you use to setup your scene? I am thinking about writting 3d game myself (totally different genre), well I've already started, but building everything from scratch takes a lot of time... and I do not have this time:( So I probably switch to use some free engine.<br /><br />Let me know if you will be near by Gdańsk (Poland), we can drink a beer or two :)Soul Intruderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16873694208138872553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5417138872461097808.post-10831182085112135972013-10-23T10:05:18.906-07:002013-10-23T10:05:18.906-07:00@MJP
I thought so that Crysis2 partially "fak...@MJP<br />I thought so that Crysis2 partially "faked" it. Would be too good to be true. But then again, we shouldn't forget that the end result still looks amazing of course. It's like magnicians. You know it's fake, but who cares? The act is amazing.<br /><br />Baking one or few bounces into voxels for the glossy reflections is a good idea. Right now I'm using RLR and cubemaps instead of the GI techniques described above to get reflections, but this is something to keep in mind.<br /><br />@Sam<br />Merci, glad it helped you! And also thanks for the link. Never heard of that technique so I'm reading it now. At a first glance, its sounds nice. But I'm pretty sure I can find some "close-but-no-cigar" cases... If I'm able to understand the technique that is (though the paper says "surprisingly easy"!).Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196340535742326978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5417138872461097808.post-86615935414418154242013-10-23T03:24:50.768-07:002013-10-23T03:24:50.768-07:00Excellent post and very informative, thank you ver...Excellent post and very informative, thank you very much for this. I am also doing research in real-time GI and wanted to try voxel cone tracing and/or LPV since a while, but your post gave me a clear and complete picture of all the limitations that these techniques entail. I think it requires too much cleverness to cover up the artifacts and there are too many corner cases (no pun intended) to take into account that I will probably not bother. Do you have any opinions on the real-time screen space photon mapping technique from nvidia (http://graphics.cs.williams.edu/papers/PhotonI3D13/)? Sam Laperehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05688552048697970050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5417138872461097808.post-79293426882951524842013-10-22T15:16:08.755-07:002013-10-22T15:16:08.755-07:00I'm not sure about Crysis 3 since I never play...I'm not sure about Crysis 3 since I never played it, but Crysis 2 only used it for the PC version. But even in that version they still primarily used 'fake' bounce lights and probes to approximate indirect, and then the LPV just added a little bit of extra bounce from the sun. I had to look really hard to notice it. <br /><br />That makes sense about the glossy reflections. I think if I were to try it I would just pre-bake a few diffuse bounces and then bake that into the voxel grid. However another problem with using cone tracing for indirect specular is that it's a pretty rough approximation of an actual specular BRDF. A real specular lobe is not a cone, it's roughly Gaussian-shaped at head-on angles and takes on more complex shapes at grazing angles. I believe Cyril Crassin did something to approximate a Gaussian, but I'd have to read his paper again to be sure. However this would still give you fairly incorrect results at grazing angles since the lobe shape would be wrong and you'd be missing Fresnel effects. You can try to add the Fresnel in after the fact like you would with a cube map, but this is incorrect and will over-brighten the result for higher roughness values. You also won't get the long "streaky" reflections that you're supposed to get at grazing angles, which is a pretty key visual component for things like nighttime shots of water or wet streets.MJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00019213063129052143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5417138872461097808.post-81847149379440907862013-10-22T00:34:24.250-07:002013-10-22T00:34:24.250-07:00Hey MJP, nice to see someone here that has helped ...Hey MJP, nice to see someone here that has helped me plenty of times on Gamedev.net :)<br /><br />You are right about the (too) high cost on VCT. I didn't know Epic dropped VCT, but that makes me feel less like a loser if I go back to a (partial) baked solution as well hehe. I also wonder, did Crysis really use their LPV technique? I think not, but I could be wrong of course. But if they didn't what kind of pre-baked solution did they use?<br /><br />The VCT cost might be "fixed" some day by evolving hardware though. I'm more curious about the correctness. The octree contains plenty of detail if you want, but as the cones get wider and wider, you have to decide whether the trace stops or continues when hitting a filled octree cell. This either leads to light leaks or missing incoming light. A real headache in any grid-based solution I think.<br /><br /><br />The glossy specular is nice indeed, though not always useful unless you do multiple bounces (or adding some fixed ambient). If doing a single bounce only, the stuff being reflected won't contain indirect lighting, leading to very dark or no reflections at all in dark areas. Also stuff not incorperated in the grid (particles, skyboxes, clouds, translucent stuff) won't be reflected. Usually not a big deal, although having a good sky in your reflections is a must for outdoor situations.<br />Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196340535742326978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5417138872461097808.post-71666360287786601722013-10-21T11:35:30.275-07:002013-10-21T11:35:30.275-07:00The VCT stuff is clever, but I haven't been so...The VCT stuff is clever, but I haven't been sold on it due to the problems you've mentioned. In the end it just ends up being too expensive in terms of performance and/or memory to justify the drop in quality relative to static diffuse bakes. Indirect specular would actually be the more interesting benefit to me, since existing solutions for indirect specular are really bad for the most most part. I think if I were going to try for realtime diffuse GI I would go down the path of pre-baking transfer data for static geometry and then applying the lighting and bouncing in realtime.<br /><br />By the way, as far as I know Epic is no longer doing any pursuing VCT and is just using lightmaps now. I would suspect that they were also unable to justify the expense, especially given how flexible they need their engine to be for their licensees.MJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00019213063129052143noreply@blogger.com